Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Hello, Mrs. Nixon.
     Mrs. NIXON. Hello, Charles. Good to be with you.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, I think we're lucky to have you with us because this has been a long and arduous campaign. Do you have any idea of how many miles you've traveled so far?
     Mrs. NIXON. No, but I know there are thousands and thousands of them.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, now, the last time I looked, it was 46,000, and I think you probably added a few thousand since then.
     Mrs. NIXON. Yes, we actually have, but it has been very worth while and thrilling to travel all over the United States and see the wonderful people everywhere.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, according to the reporters who accompany your party, you've developed into a seasoned campaigner on your own. Was this a natural talent, Mrs. Nixon?
     Mrs. NIXON. Well, actually, I have been campaigning with Dick since 1946, and I wouldn't miss it for anything.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Although I am told that you never make what might be called political speeches - set speeches. Is that right?
     Mrs. NIXON. That's true, because I don't feel that one person can speak for another. However, I talk on all the other subjects.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, apparently you are bearing up pretty well. You look as fresh as a daisy. How about the Vice President?
     Mrs. NIXON. Well, he's a real workhorse and still going strong. By the way, he's right in the next room. Would you like to go in and see him?
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. I certainly would. Mr. Vice President, how do you do?
     Vice President NIXON. How are you, Charles? Nice to hear from you.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. In a campaign as prolonged as this, with mounting fatigue and tensions, it must be a terrible strain. Do you ever get a full night's sleep?
     Vice President NIXON. Very seldom. As a matter of fact, I usually try to sleep on Thursdays. I think that's the day I get to sleep this week.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, what is it that keeps you going?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, the campaign itself, the momentum of all of the responsibilities that you have, the fact that the stakes are very high, the responsibility that you have to get your message across to the American people, and someway you can do almost anything for a period of about 2 months, which is the normal length of the campaign.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, I guess you can, but campaigning across the country as you have been doing means giving up a good deal of your personal life, and, of course, being away from Washington and from your daughters.
     Vice President NIXON. Well, actually, I think that's about the hardest part of it. You can't really have a personal life during the course of a campaign. I don't think I've seen my daughters for 3 weeks now. Pat has been back home at least once in that period, but I have been on the road continually, and we naturally miss them.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, I've got a treat for you then because since you have been away from them for so long, we have arranged for our cameras to look in on the girls at your house in Washington, and if you and Mrs. Nixon wouldn't mind moving over in front of the television set, you can see them.
     Mrs. NIXON. How wonderful !
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Hello, Tricia. Are you there ?
     TRICIA. Yes. Hi!
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. How is everything in Washington?
     TRICIA. Oh, fine.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Is that Checkers?
     TRICIA. Yes.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Oh, he looks in good shape. Where is your sister, Julie?
     TRICIA. She's in the living room.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, now your mother and father are here in New York with me, and if you and Julie would like to see them and talk to them, why don't you join Julie inside by the television set and you can have a chat with them.
     TRICIA. All right.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Hello, Julie.
     JULIE. Hi
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. How would you like to say "hello" to your mother and father?
     JULIE. I'd like to a lot.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, they're up here in New York with me and they should be coming up on that television set there. Can you see them?
     JULIE. Uh, huh.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Can you see them all right?
     JULIE. Yes.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, Tricia's coming in from the backyard and you and she can see them.
     Look, I know that you two have a lot to say to your daughters. Why don't you talk to them, Mr. Vice President?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I really think I ought to defer to Pat. She has the right, I think, to talk first.
     Mrs. NIXON. Hi, honey. How are you, Julia and Tricia ?
     TRICIA and JULIE. Fine.
     Mrs. NIXON. I surely miss you, but we had a good time last Sunday; didn't we?
     TRICIA and JULIE. Yes.
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I can say this: that I am going to be home Sunday, so that will be the first time in 3 weeks. We are looking forward to seeing you. What do you think we should do? Shall we go out to dinner that night?
     TRICIA. Yes. Let's go to the club.
     Vice President NIXON. That's always the same place. Tricia is very loyal to the same place. She never wants to go any place different on Sunday night except the country club - the Columbia Country Club - where we go for dinner usually.
     Mrs. NIXON. By the way, we were in Florida yesterday, and we saw all your friends, and they were wondering if we were coming down for a vacation. How about it? Would you like that, girls?
     TRICIA and JULIE. Yes.
     Mrs. NIXON. Since we didn't have a family vacation this year, maybe we can have one after the campaigning is over.
     TRICIA. I hope so.
     JULIE. Yeah.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Girls, this is Charles Collingwood. How do you think your father looks after all this traveling?
     TRICIA. Oh, I think he looks very good. He looks tired.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, if he is, he has reason to be. Well, now listen, girls. Your mother and father and I have got some things to talk about. Why don't you sit there and watch it while we have our conversation. OK?
     TRICIA. All right.
     JULIE. OK.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mr. Vice President, do you think that Julie and Tricia have been working as hard on their schoolwork as you have on the campaign?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I am sure they think so, and, as a matter of fact, Charles, I do want to say this. We hear a lot these days about the things that are wrong with American education, and there are some things that can be corrected, but I want to say that I have been tremendously impressed with the interest our young people have in political affairs. They come out to meetings by the thousands, and they have a better understanding of our affairs in this Nation and the world than I had at that age.
     I also want to say this: that as far as homework is concerned, our two daughters have to do more than I did at that age, so I think our schools must not be too bad.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, that's a good sign
     Vice President NIXON. Let me just add one other thing. I can't do the homework. I'm glad that Pat's a teacher. She's able to help them.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mr. Nixon, this campaign is different from former campaigns in many ways, particularly the television aspect and the highly publicized debates that you and Senator Kennedy have been having. What, in your mind, is the greatest value of these debates?
     Vice President NIXON. I think perhaps the greatest value is in creating public interest. One of the problems in any campaign is to get people to listen. Usually the tendency is to vote as your grandfather or your father did, or according simply to the party labels. I feel very strongly, myself, that when a presidential election is held, particularly in a critical year like this one, that it is essential that people not just think in terms of traditional patterns, but that they make the decision themselves on the basis of the men and the issues.
     Now, these debates have millions of people hearing the candidates speak who would never come to a political meeting, or never tune into a political broadcast, and so they serve a very good purpose in that respect.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Have they served at all to sharpen up your own attitude toward the issues, give you a chance to know how your opponent feels about things, what's important to him and so forth?
     Vice President NIXON. To a certain extent, yes. I would say, though, in being completely objective - and I am sure Senator Kennedy must feel the same thing - that where we have a limited amount of time, say 2 ½ minutes per question, to discuss an issue like, we'll say, what should our policy be toward Africa? - that it is terribly difficult to discuss the issues in the depth that they ought to be discussed in.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, isn't there another danger in extemporaneous debates of this kind of quick thinking, off-the-cuff thinking, as opposed to thoughtful and penetrating responses?
     Vice President NIXON. That is correct. As a matter of fact, many times after a debate, I am sure we both feel that if we had had a little more time, that we might have given a different answer, or a more thoughtful one. On the other hand, on the other side of the coin, whoever is President is going to have to make some decisions very speedily at times, so that the people at least get a chance to see how both of us react under fire, and in that respect they get a chance to make an intelligent judgment.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. In that first debate a great deal was made of the fact that your appearance on television wasn't quite what you and your staff had wanted. Have you got anything to say about that?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I've often said that there wasn't much that could be done with my face, but looking at it from the standpoint of the technical matters, I understand that the lighting was not, apparently, fitted particularly for the situation that I was in. I, apparently, according to the experts, should have worn a darker suit, which I wore in the last debate, for example.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Yes.
     Vice President NIXON. And also it was suggested that I apparently was not up to my standard weight. As you know, I had been in the hospital, and, apparently, whenever you are three or four pounds underweight, it shows up in your face first. Understand, I am not making any excuses because when you go into these debates, you, of course, have the same opportunity that your opponent has to look as well as possible, but in the last two I apparently looked a little better.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mr. Vice President and Mrs. Nixon - I would like to address this to both of you - in a strenuous and hard-fought political campaign like this one, inevitably there are slings and arrows that seem to rise with the heat of the campaign - things that get said. Are you, personally, wounded and hurt by some of the things that get said about you by the opposition and in the press?
     Mrs. NIXON. Actually, I have always been amazed about it from the first, but I have a philosophy, and I believe that if you do the right thing, the very best you can and you know in your heart that you're right, nothing can hurt. That has been a great philosophy to have. I try to give this to the children as well.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. How about you, Mr. Vice President?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I think we would be less than candid if we were not to admit that when you do get attacks which you feel may be unfair, that they do have their effects. However, my answer to it is always this: that that's why we take these responsibilities. People in public life in a free country have to expect that they're going to be criticized. In fact, if we didn't have that criticism, our policies wouldn't be as effective as they ought to be, and the very fact that we constantly are subjected to merciless criticism in the press, and by our opponents, means that it keeps us on our toes, and it also means that the policies we eventually develop are better policies than they would be if we didn't have this extensive criticism. So I don't complain about it. I think it is my responsibility, just as it is my opponent's, whenever I think they're wrong, to correct it, but, on the other hand, we cannot have a campaign without having it being hard-hitting. That's the only kind that will sharpen the issues and also develop the candidate's thinking.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. But politics armors you.
     Vice President NIXON. It certainly does.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Has this affected the children at all, some of these criticisms and things?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, I would say that it perhaps has more effect on children than it does on the parents. After all, it is rather difficult for children to understand all of the ramifications of politics. Sometimes, for example, when I have been sitting in my study reading, one of the children will come in and say, "Daddy, come quick, somebody is attacking you on television," and I point out again, as I have on this program, that that's part of the democratic process, and I must say that they take it very well, and I am, frankly, very proud of the way that they have responded to these political campaigns.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Around Washington, Mr. Vice President, you have the reputation of being personally more introspective than outgoing, sensitive and rather shy. Would you say that's true, and if so, would you attribute it to your Quaker upbringing?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, Charles, I don't suppose that any individual is a good judge of what he is in answering a question like the one you have put, but it is true that perhaps in view of my own background, I am not a natural politician. You think of somebody in political life as being an outgoing, back-slapping type. I must admit that I am somewhat reserved, and I think that is a result of my background and my training. On the other hand, I do have a liking for people - a great affection for peoples - which I think, in the long run, is the most essential factor in political life, and that's true however we may feel on issues. You have to like people to be able to go through a campaign.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Well, I was going to ask you whether this reserve, or whatever you would call it, has made it more difficult for you to play the role that you now find yourself in where you have to meet lots of people and lots of strange people, too.
     Vice President NIXON. It would be a lot easier, and I could advise any prospective political novices who are going into the political arena - it would be a lot easier not to have any inhibitions with regard to the reservations to which you refer.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Yes.
     Vice President NIXON. On the other hand, let's look back through our history. Many people who have served effectively in public office have been, shall we say, the type of people that you have referred to. They haven't all been the outgoing, aggressive type. It takes all types to make up a world and it means that either type can be successful in political life.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mr. Vice President, going back a long way, what's the true story of how you got into politics? I have often read that you answered a want ad. Is that true?
     Vice President NIXON. That's a slight exaggeration. As a matter of fact, it was in the nature of an ad in this sense. A committee of Republicans in the 12th Congressional District in California had been losing elections for many years there, and so they decided in the year 1946 to put a story in the newspapers inviting all people in the district who thought they might be Congressmen or congressional candidates to come before this group of Republicans - a group of a hundred leading citizens of the district - and present their case. I was one of those who had the opportunity of reading that story. It was brought to my attention, and consequently, I applied. I appeared before this committee along with six other prospective candidates. I made a 10-minute speech - probably the most important 10-minute speech I have ever made in my life - and after that meeting, they decided to back me for Congress. That's how I got where I am today.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mrs. Nixon, you accompanied the Vice President on a great many trips both in this country, as you are doing now, and abroad, and you're sometimes described as having become a lady diplomat. Do you feel that's true?
     Mrs. NIXON. I don't know what the judgment is on my performance, but I do know that it has been a wonderful experience for me, and I just hope that I have represented the American people on those trips.
     Vice President NIXON. Well, Charles, if I could cut in here, let me answer that question. They often speak of my trips abroad to 54 countries, and Pat has been with me on all of them except to one country, Austria, and there is no question about her performance. And I think this is said in the best bipartisan sense: that when the wives of our officials do go abroad, it is terribly important that they not just go and sightsee and shop, and do the things that usually women would be expected to do. They should do what my wife has done - visit the hospitals, show a concern for and an interest in people, particularly the poor people, the unfortunate people, of other lands. There is nothing that draws people in other lands closer to us than for us to show concern about their problems, and the women - the wives of those who travel abroad - can do that much more effectively than the men.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Mr. Vice President, we were talking a minute ago about your start in politics. In some of your public utterances both before and after your nomination, it seemed to me that you have indicated that your rise to fame and authority - that you thought of it as almost an accident, a sort of feeling of fatalism. Do you feel that your life and career have been determined in large extent by forces outside your own control?
     Vice President NIXON. I think that everybody's life and career, particularly where public service is concerned, is affected by forces outside their control. I don't mean by that that everything is predestined but I mean that you do have to be prepared for the opportunities when they come your way. But, on the other hand, unless you happen to be the man needed for the job at the time, nothing that you can do, in my opinion, is going to get it for you. Now, that's not true in business. It isn't true in the law. It isn't true in the professions generally. It is true of public service. In other words, I have a philosophy that this country is a country of destiny. I happen to believe that through the years our people some way know how to select the man for President that the times need, and the country needs, I believe for example, in this selection that whatever the judgment is on November 8, it will be not only the best judgment of the people, but it will be best for the country. That will be true whether I win or whether I lose. In other words, I think that the times make the man rather than that the man makes the times.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Now, speaking of the Presidency, the great office which you seek, what, in your opinion, are the qualities in a President that make him a great President ?
     Vice President NIXON. Well, the qualities that make a President a great President are the obvious ones of ability to lead, standing for the right, the great ideals in which this country has vested interest from the time of its foundation, the ability to articulate those ideals in a way that the people want them expressed, not only here at home, but abroad. But if I could put it another way, I happen to believe that when we get into this discussion of what makes a great President, that it isn't a question of ambition that makes a great President, or his own abilities, so much as it is the people themselves. Look at the great Presidents of our history. They have been great to the extent that they have represented the highest ideals, the deepest emotions, and faith of the American people, and to the extent that the people are great, that their ideals are high, whoever is President of this country will be a great man. Now, I happen to believe for that reason that in this critical period of the sixties it is tremendously essential that our people recognize the challenge that we face; that they realize that it isn't enough just to hold the line for America for our own freedom, for our own prosperity, but that it is our mission in the world to extend freedom to all the world. If they have this sense of mission, then whoever is President will be a great President. A President can be only as great as the people are great at a particular time.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Thank you very much, Mr. Vice President. I think we ought to say goodby to Tricia and Julie, who are now still down in Washington.
     Hello, girls. Could you hear everything?
     JULIE. Yes.
     TRICIA. Yes.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Your father looked very well, didn't you think?
     TRICIA. Yes.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Thank you very much for coming and being with us. Goodby, Tricia. Goodby, Julie.
     TRICIA and JULIE. Goodby.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. And Mr. Vice President and Mrs. Nixon, thank you very much for letting us come and take this time from your busy campaign schedule.
     Vice President NIXON. Thank you, Charles. The time went very fast.
     Mr. COLLINGWOOD. Goodby.
     Mrs. NIXON. Goodby.
     Vice President NIXON. Goodby.